New Tow Vehicle on the Block

[DL Rupper]

Today I went to the Dayton, Oh Auto Show. Wow, there is a new 1/2 ton that needs to be reckoned with. The Toyota Tundra is one impressive 1/2 ton pickup. It has 380 hp coupled with 401 lb-ft of torque. My "95" Dodge Cummins only had 420 lb-ft of torque. The Toyota is rated to tow 10,500 lbs. It looks awesome to boot. The only negative is the $35,900 price tag for a 1/2 ton. Of course it was a 4x4 with extended cab, but that's a lot of money for a little bitty pickup. Although the new Ford and Chevy 1 ton Diesels were in the $50/55k ball park. The Dodge 2500 Big Horn 4x4, extended cab, short bed with the new 6.7 L Cummins and 6 spd auto trans was a modest $45k. I keep hearing inflation has been held in check. At least that's what they claim when inflation retirement raises are discussed. :dead:

[Grandview Trailer Sa]

Man, I remember the first new 1/2 ton GMC 4x4 I bought. I drove it off the lot with less than 20 miles on it for $7,800.00. Of course that was a 1979.

[dmjaway]

DL Rupper said that, "Today he went to the Dayton, Oh Auto Show. Wow, there is a new 1/2 ton that needs to be reckoned with. The Toyota Tundra is one impressive 1/2 ton pickup. It has 380 hp coupled with 401 lb-ft of torque."

We have one of those beauties and, so far, it has been very impressive. We shall see, one day, when we are pulling the canyon in central Arizona on the 15 mile up-hill climb!

Dave

[DL Rupper]

Dave, let us know how well it performs. Most of us are diesel fans, but it looks like the V-8s are back for the next round. For lighter loads and less than big, big trailers the new V-8s should be adequate for the job. Anything over 30 foot I would still want the torque supplied by a big diesel.

The Tundra is awesome looking. Would love to drive a Tundra 4x4 to Alaska pulling a 21 to 24 ft 5th Wheel.

[hertig]

Just because the Tundra can 'tow 10,400 pounds', I think that would be a TT, not a fiver. It may not have a large enough GAWR to take the pin weight of a fiver. Something to check on before signing on the dotted line.

[dmjaway]

Thanks again hertig, however, it would help me even more if I knew what, "TT, not a fiver", meant? :)

[DL Rupper]

Hey Dave, TT is a Travel Trailer that hitches to your bumper. Generally lighter than a 5er (5th Wheel Trailer that hitches in the middle of the truck bed). The hitch weight on a 5er is about !,000 lbs to 2,500 lbs on a big 5er. The hitch weight on a TT is generally around 500 lbs give or take a 100 lbs or so. The reason for the difference is that to make a trailer tow really well you need at least 20% of the trailer weight up front. This is easy to do with a 5er by hitching over your truck axle. With the TT it is harder and doesn't happen because the rear end of the trailer can't take that much weight without affecting the steering and control of the truck. Typically the TT's are not as easy to tow as the 5er. They tend to have a lot of sway and react badly when Big Trucks go by. You can get a equalizer hitch that helps stop the sway and makes them easier to control. The draw back to the 5er is the height and weight on the bigger (29+ foot trailers). The weight could be a major drawback to towing a large 5er for your 1/2 ton pickup. That is why we have been saying a TT would probably be better for you if you want to go with a loaded trailer in the 9,000 to 10,000 lb range. It wouldn't be wise to hitch up to a 5er that has a king pin hitch weight of say 2,000 lbs and then load another 1000 lbs in your pickup bed, if your bed capacity was say 2000 lbs. Is that all confusing enough. :laugh:

[hertig]

There is also a hitch by PullRite which claims it makes towing a Travel Trailer 'as pleasant as' towing a Fifth Wheel, and easier to hook up. May keep the sway down, probably won't do anything for weight distribution which you may need with that 1/2 ton truck.

[deniloo]

I'm hearing all the good things about the new truck but being from DETROIT it's not safe to drive them kind of trucks! :(

[dmjaway]

Thanks DL for the clarification on “TT” and “5er”, guess I should have been bright enough to figure that out at least. Still processing a lot of information and I thank you for your patience with this newbie.

We will be shooting for the 6 to 7k dry weight and are learning how to optimize weight and storage by considering the types of cargo and supplies necessary for the various terms and situations we will find ourselves in.

With the 07 Tundra, we feel that the TT is the better bet, over against the 5er when considering weight versus the size of the units. The towing limit for the 07 Tundra 4x4 is about 10,300 pounds, which most likely means about 9000 pounds in the real world.

The 07 Tundra 5.7L engine is supposed to produce 381 hp and 401 lbs of torque and a 6th gear ratio of 0.588, in the 6 speed transmission, which should help on the highway.

Still do not know how all of this will really translate out on the road but it sounds good anyway.

Thanks for all the information DL,

Dave

[dmjaway]

thanks for the info on PullRite, http://www.pullrite.com/pullrite.htm

Still trying to process their information and see if it really would be better than the "BlueOx"

Thanks,

Dave

[DL Rupper]

It's much better to be prepared with all the info you can get, rather than blunder through it. It gets expensive when you buy the wrong hitch or trailer. Like I mentioned in your other thread, Wal-Mart has a RV'ing 101 book in their RV dept. I don't personally know if it is any good, but there should be some useful info in it.

I bought a book on Full-Time RV'ing about 14 years ago. 2 years before we hit the road RV'ing and we are still using the info we got out of the book. It was the only book available at the time (lots of them now). I don't remember the name of the book and it is probably out of print now because I read a couple of years ago one of the husband/wife team that authored the book had died. Bottom line: Any RV book will give you lots of info.

[dmjaway]

Thanks again Dl for the info. We bought the book, “Complete Guide to Full-Time RVing, (Life on the Open Road), by the Moellers and it does contain a lot of information. Still, it’s only a 1998 publication.

Will stop by Wal-Mart and pick up a copy of “The RV Book” by Mark Polk
($4 cheaper there than Amazon.com).

Thanks,

Dave

[SnowbirdInFlight]

If we were to get a new hitch, it would have to be the Hensley Arrow. I've seen this one in action, however, it is really expensive. </p>

</p>

http://www.hensleymfg.com/ <a name="Hensley Arrow"></a> </p>

[DL Rupper]

Hey Dave, the Moeller book is the one we started with. I just couldn't remember their name (getting to old). It is a great RV book, but some of the info is dated. Ours was probably about a 1993 edition. Technology has moved on, but a lot of their advice is still valid today.

I think the book you mentioned at Wal-Mart is the one I saw there. It says RVing 101 in smaller print up on the top of the front page, but that wasn't the name of the book.

[dmjaway]

Dear SnowbirdInFlight, as you say, the Hensley unit is $2995.00 and the 1400 Pound weight distribution bars are $50.00 extra.

The 90° PullRite: http://www.pullrite.com/pullrite_90.htm

10K, Suggested Retail: $2,350 * (price includes equalizing equipment)
20K, Suggested Retail: $2,915 * (price includes equalizing equipment

The Blue Ox “Sway Pro” comes in at about $675 with Shanks.

Thanks,

Dave

[C Nash]

Deniloo, I think the Toyoto is the only truck made in America now :o . Sure some impressive numbers on it.4 wheel disc brakes with 13.8&quot; 4 piston calipers on the front and 13.6&quot; single piston on rear should make for great breaking on a 1/2 ton. Think you would be ok with one of the light 27 to 29 ft 5 th wheel. Should handle the pin weight. Wow, cost more than the house I bought 40 year ago :o

[DL Rupper]

The bottom line on the new Toyota Tundra is: It can tow 10,500 lbs on the flat and for a V-8 it has impressive torque, but will it pull the hills. My first Dodge CTD had 440 ft Lbs of torque, but would only tow my 12,000 lb 5er at 30 mph up a 6% grade. It would tow all day long up that grade at 30 mph, however, I was always worried I was going to get rear ended. I don't think I would try tow or buy any trailer over about 8,000 lbs dry weight with it. That's still quite an improvement over 1/2 ton pickups of the recent past. Just my opinion. :laugh:

[dmjaway]

DL commented that, “The bottom line on the new Toyota Tundra is: It can tow 10,500 lbs on the flat and for a V-8 it has impressive torque, but will it pull the hills?”

I don’t know yet but we shall see.

The 07 Tundra 4x4 is rated at 10,300 where the 4x2 is 10,500 lbs. An after some consideration, I would agree that 8000 lbs dry weight would be max. We think that between 7-8k with a good quality hitch is about right.

Speaking of hitches, would you have an opinion on the better hitches?

The Hensley unit with its 1400 Pound weight distribution bars, the PullRite, including its equalizing equipment, or the Blue Ox “Sway Pro” with Shanks, or perhaps another preference?

Thanks,

Dave

[DL Rupper]

Dave, if you 're asking me about TT hitches I have no opinion as the last TT I owned was in 1982 and it was all of 17 feet long, single axle and I towed it with a Chevy short bed 4x4, 350 V-8. I used a bumper hitch and didn't even feel it back there. From what I can observe you are doing a good job researching the different hitches and will probably get the right one. It sounds like all of them will do a pretty good job. I would buy the best one that was reasonable in price. If you are only going to get a small improvement and it will cost say $1000 extra for the small improvement you are probably wasting the extra money. However, if you get a remarkable improvement for the extra $1000 it is probably a good investment in safety.

[dmjaway]

Thanks DL, I'll keep on with the research.

Dave

[dmjaway]

After an hour long conversation with my salesman, (the x-NASA engineer), at Toyota this morning, I came away with a much better understanding of the 07 Tundra's capabilities and, I believe, a clearer picture of the nature of the &quot;load&quot; distribution hitch, (including the pro's and cons of &quot;friction&quot; anti-sway bars).</p>

I would like to submit my findings for discussion, if it would help the forum?</p>

This would be regarding the 07 Tundra 5.7L and the maximum safe trailer weight that this truck can haul.</p>

Starting with the TV itself, the WDH, and a suitable TT</p>

I want to thank everyone here for helping me up this part of the learning curve.</p>

Dave</p>

[TexasClodhopper]

This would be the appropriate place and time if you would so be inclined to do that. :approve:

[DL Rupper]

Dave, fire away. All info is helpful.

[dmjaway]

Thanks guys.

The first thing I want everyone to know is that I am not selling Tundras. We have owned Toyotas for many years and just stayed with them. When we leased an 06 we thought it would do the job of towing what we had in mind, however, the 4.7L was only rated at 7,400 lbs and that wasn't enough. So we went back to the dealership and met a salesman named Tibi who had some extensive engineering background and he helped us with the choice of the 07 5.7.

I needed to understand the truck first, as completely as I could before proceeding to the hitch and on to the TT.

I realize that we are not in the 5er class and don't come close to the specs for the Ford 450 V10 or the Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins Diesel, but for our class this is what we have:

A 2007 Toyota Tundra Double Cab Standard bed, (6.5’), 4x4 with Tow and Off Road Packages.

Engine:
·5.7-liter DOHC EFI V8, 32-valve aluminum block with aluminum alloy head with Dual VVT-i
·381 hp @ 5600 rpm
·401 lb.-ft. @ 3600 rpm
·Bore and stroke: 3.70 x 4.02
·Compression ratio: 10.2:1
·Displacement: 5663 cc
·Ignition system: DIS (Direct)

Transmission:
·6-speed automatic overdrive ECT transmission
·1st 3.333
·2nd 1.960
·3rd 1.353
·4th 1.000
·5th 0.728
·6th 0.588
·Reverse 3.061

Rear End:
·Rear differential ratio/size (in.) 4.300/10.5 in.
About the seemingly low-geared 4.30 ratio, as I understand it, when you put the larger 18" wheels and transmission into play, the engine RPM at 65 mph (6th gear OD) is actually slower (1730 RPM) than the some trucks with a 3.73 ratio in 4th gear OD (1840). Since the torque converter locks in gears 3-6, you can control the effective drive ratio with the transmission gear.

Safety and Brakes:
·Power-assisted four-wheel Anti-lock Brake System (ABS) with
·Electronic Brake-force Distribution (EBD),
·Brake Assist, Vehicle Stability Control (VSC)
·Traction Control (TRAC)
·Automatic Limited-Slip Differential (Auto LSD)
·Active Traction Control (A-TRAC) on 4WD
·Front: Ventilated disc; Front diameter: 13.9 in.
·Rear: Ventilated disc; Rear diameter: 13.6 in.

Steering:
·Rack-and-pinion hydraulic power steering
·Ratio: (Double Cab 4x4: 18.0)
·Turns, lock-to-lock: 3.71
·Turning circle (ft.), curb-to-curb: Double Cab: 44.0/49.0

Parks much easier than my 2006 Tundra did, much better turning radius.

Suspension:
·Front independent coil-spring high-mounted double-wishbone with stabilizer bar and low-pressure nitrogen gas shocks;
·Rear live axle with trapezoidal multi-leaf rear suspension and staggered low-pressure nitrogen gas shocks.
It does ride like a passenger car with the tire pressure at 33-36, (on a max of 44ps).

The track, front and rear, is 67.9" and the ground clearance is 10.4"

The 07 has a GVWR of 7100lbs, Hitch weight Rating of 1030 lbs, Payload Capacity of 1580 lbs, and a Tow Capacity of 10,300 for the 4x4.

With this in mind, I will end this section and try to put some of this information into another section regarding the actual towing capabilities and the correct "Load" Distribution Hitch .

Thanks for your patience,

Dave

[BarneyS]

Dmjaway said:
"The Hensley unit with its 1400 Pound weight distribution bars, the PullRite, including its equalizing equipment, or the Blue Ox “Sway Pro” with Shanks, or perhaps another preference?"

There is no comparison between the Hensley and PullRite with the Blue Ox. They are in two completly different leagues, both pricewise and performance wise.

The Blue Ox is a weight distributing hitch that uses friction to help control sway. It uses the friction between the upper and lower parts of the hitch head where the bars pivot to control sway. The devices around the chains, although advertised as sway control, do not do anything to help control sway or anything else. In my opinion, it is an inferior design to some of the other friction based sway control units that are available su;ch as the Reese "Dual Cam" or the Equal-i-zer. There is also a new one by Reese that looks and functions very similar to the Equal-i-zer but I can't remember the name of it.

The Hensley and PullRite, on the other hand, do not rely on friction at all to prevent sway. In fact, sway almost cannot happen with the use of these two hitches. They each work differently to accomplish the same goal however. The PullRite functions almost exactly like a 5th wheel hitch that is mounted below the truck rather than in the bed. It places the articulation point of the truck/trailer combination just behind the rear axle of the truck which is similar to what a 5th wheel hitch does. This helps to eliminate or control sway. It also includes weight distribution in its' design.

The Hensley hitch mounts entirely on the tongue of the trailer and also does not use any friction in its' design to control sway. It controls or eliminates sway by the linkage designed into the hitch head and moves the effective pivot point up near the rear axle of the truck which also makes it eliminate sway as well as a 5th wheel hitch does. It functions extremely well and you will not experience any sway at all when you use this hitch. It also incorporates weight distribution into its' design as do all the others.

Both of the above two hitches are quite expensive to purchase new BUT they also bring at least 1/2 or better of their purchase price if sold used when you decide you don't need it anymore. The Hensley also comes with a 30 day money back guarantee, including shipping, if you are not satisfied with your purchase.

I have towed for many years with regular hitches, friction sway controls, Dual Cam sway control, and now with a Hensley. I will never go back to the other style hitches. I have not towed with a PullRite but my good friend has and he now has a Hensley. He says that they both eliminate sway about equally but each has disadvantages/advantages of their own.

One more comment. While the Tundra is a beautiful and impressive truck, you need to be wary of some of the claims made by truck makers today. In regards to the 10,500# towing rating of the Tundra, I would be very careful of what I towed with that weight. There is a HUGE difference between towing a flat bed trailer with 10,000# of steel rod on it , or a boat trailer/boat that weighs 10,500# and a travel trailer that weighs 10,500#. The frontal area of the travel trailer will make the truck work MUCH harder than the other two items mentioned! Please don't think that you can tow that large of a load in a travel trailer. I am afraid you will be extremely disapointed!

Hope this helps you out a bit on your search for a hitch. Good luck.
Barney

[dmjaway]

Thanks Barney for the input. Hensley now has a 60 day guarantee. We just watched their new video and it is an impressive hitch.</p>

Don't worry, we won't be towing anything close to 10,500 lbs. The 07Tundra4x4 DC is only rated at 10,300 lbs and we believe that is withjust thedriver and no payload.</p>

Best that we expect is 8500-9000 max.We don't yet know how the passenger and payload factors will work out.</p>

We aren't new to towing, just TT newbies.</p>

We are still looking at the PullRite, the Hensley, and Reese's new hitch.</p>

Apart from that, we are on to finding the best configuration TT for the 07 Tundra.</p>

We also intend to cap the bed of the truck with a classic wedge, we know it will add some weight but it may help air flow characteristics hitting the front of the TT.</p>

Dave</p>

[jcpeck]

Thanks for the great info. I just bought a new Tundra and am struggling with hitch weight on a TT I'm looking at. Hitch weight is 900 lbs and I am not sure if I should go that high.

[dmjaway]

The 07 Tundra's, (Tow Package), hitch is a weight distribution hitch which is a class 4 HD it will support a tongue weight, with the tow package of 1500 lbs but the hitch rating of 1030 lbs comes from the calculation of 10% of the Tow Rating of 10,300 lbs for the DC, Std bed, 4X4 with the Off Road and Tow Package. We have decided not to go above 900 lbs hitch weight even with a Hensley or Equilizer hitch attached to the TT tongue. For the 07, it looks like we will have to stay in the 7K to 9K TT GVW range to stay within all of the TV and TT ratings.